Welcome to Phansite archive (beta)
You'll find here all archived threads from the Phansite forum.
Kazuya Rants: Wild Cards
Hello people, this was a meme at first, but I honestly want to put this one opinion out there cuz I'm bored. As a quick disclaimer I want to make clear I like Persona, it's how I initially got into Megaten and then into Shin Megami Tensei, which is my favorite part of the franchise. I have plenty of emotions and memories with this since I got into it back in 2012 - 13 with P4, and have played since SMT1 through 4, as well as most of Persona, except 1 which I will finish when Uni gives me the time to do so. Many of these I've played multiple times. In short, I really, really like the series and have fun with it, not at all bad if a bit overrated at times. That said, Wild Cards. Just a fair warning, there are bound to be spoilers for past games, in case you don't wanna learn anything until you see it yourself or play it. As you all are aware, be it through gameplays, anime or actual playthroughs, the Wild Card is the special power given to the Protagonist of the game since Persona 3, which basically allows them to change Arcana and hold many different Persona at once, which they can then change in the middle of battle at will. I won't claim to be an expert with this in regards to gameplay because it is fast-paced as SMT generally is, even before the Press Turn System introduced in SMT3 Nocturne, yes, before you could gain extra moves by hitting weaknesses, that only used to matter for total damage received. All I will say regarding this is that I do consider it to trivialize party members to a horrid degree once you know how to play, this is because you can fuse and prepare powerful Persona ready to take on anything thrown your way, but this is basically all JRPG, right? I just don't like it, I don't find fun to make your party members completely optional while you, the self-insert, are the one true powerhouse. It doesn't sit right with me, even if it works quite well. My true, actual gripe is why this is how it is, so... narrative it is. I have a series of issues with Persona from 3 through 5 that became only increasingly notorious to me as I played through them, since there was plenty of repetition that made me desire something new and challenging. What I mean is that Persona, since 3, has this focus on making the player feel special and empowered, hell, Persona 3 makes you seal away the alien embodiment of death itself by using the power of your friends to create "The Universe" Arcana (Which is just The World irl), making you die for the world's sins (As a side note, P3 MC may be a good martyr but never as good as the franchise’s actual Jesus, which is SMT2's Aleph, the protagonist. I will die on this hill.) while also being forced to date every single chick in the game to finish their Social Links. Consider an abandoned piece of lore made it so Nyx was the reason humans have the Collective Unconscious, which would put her above Philemon and Nyarlathotep, the main "godly" figures of the series from 1 through both parts of 2. P3's MC could even use Fusion Spells on his own, meanwhile the rest of the party does whatever. If you ask me, this is a bit silly, and I'm glad they toned it down with P4 a bit because holy hell, that MC is the living, breathing representation of a self-insert Gary Stu, which you would say "That's the point", and I know, and I hate it, even more so considering the cast develops in a very believable way (Unlike the next two sets of casts that barely develop, and no, Social Links are not replacement for actual development, I will talk about this in time), it was jarring to have your overpowered, perfect self just there and then dying. I actually like P3 as movies more so than as a game for this very reason. I like the themes, but as a game I find it really dull in comparison to the next two.
As I said before, P4 toned it down, and I would say it is the only one of the Neo Persona bunch that I feel pulls off the Social Link/Wild Card aspect really well, because the fact that you are special is not really just there to make you feel special about the The Fool's Journey, it's also there to make a point and contrast with the human antagonist, Adachi. I don't want to go too in depth with any of this, but I will say that, while Yu and Adachi had the same Persona and got their power the same exact way, the point of the game was your "truth" in life, accepting yourself and connecting with others with a considerably more slice-of-life style to the entire thing. Yu, the Protagonist (no pun intended) is supposed to represent this as you walk through the game, make new connections and become a full self through them. You could say the true Investigation was searching for your true self. Adachi, in comparison, was lonely and jaded about the world after a life time of unfulfilling work and pain, he was consumed by his own darkness and became corrupted, lashing out against both murder victims and watching Namatame and the Investigation Team play a cat and mouse game until they got to him. What's striking about him is that he didn't have a particularly traumatic or horrible upbringing, he was just beaten down again and again by talented people who everyone liked, and no matter how hard he worked, he never got the same treatment, watching alone from the side, unable to connect to anybody. Anyone of us could end as him, alone, angry at everything and nearing some kind of breaking point from the which you can never comeback, not to say anyone would murder. At the same time, anyone could realistically be Yu Narukami within the context of the game. Because your identity has not been yet decided, you understand those around you, your family, friends, classmates, coworkers, and slowly come to understand more about yourself, by connecting with others and facing your own darkness rather than running away from it and being consumed. I consider Persona 4 to be the most relatable in general for this reason alone, because you are Yu Narukami when you begin the game, and The Fool's Journey is you making your way through life, while also coming to face the person you could become were you to deny reality and keep others away. Gameplay issues are the same, but you are not as OP as you were in 3. In short, the only game in the which I actually think the Wild Card serves a great purpose is 4. You could've had a single Persona in 3 of whatever Arcana and nothing would've really changed narratively, only the ending, if anything.
Now comes P5 and oh man, this game is a handful. It's inferior to 3 and 4 in a lot of ways and so is the cast, it has a similar issue as 4 in that sense, but I will say things as they are. Persona 5's Joker should've been an actual character, and not a silent protagonist working as a self-insert and considering that I really see NO reason for the Wild Card to be a thing there. You could say "Because it's to show the contrast between Akechi and Joker", but this was done in the last game and so much better. P5 straight up tells you they have the same power and had Akechi made friends, he would've kicked their asses, cuz making friends is cool. P4 was clear about it but no one had to explain it to you. Morgana is constantly talking to you while you say Yes, No or "Funny line". You see, in no point besides Akechi does you becoming a Wild Card matter at all, because even at the end of the battle against Yaldabaoth, Satanael is conjured up by the collective belief in the Phantom Thieves, and while your Social Links, or as they were called, Confidants, are a part of that crowd, it doesn't really matter because now the entire country has your back. Universe Arcana? Stupid but it was your friends what gave it to you. Izanagi-no-Okami? Your bonds, fine, makes sense. Satanael? Cool my friends like me, watch as the rest of the world with the which I had no direct contact with give me what I need. The entire point of P5 is, I suppose, "breaking free", which is hard to take in sometimes because the game tries to be P4 a little too much, never surpassing the initial Kamoshida arc with the which it begins, and instead sloooowly going down in quality, being salvaged by Futaba's arc only to immediately crash and burn soon after. However, the game ended on a note of "You are no longer a slave, and unlike the previous two protagonists, you have yet to find your truth in life, your own World", so I will give them credit if Satanael being Fool is cuz of this, but honestly I would not have this much hope at all. With this in mind, being a Wild Card becomes a gimmick, just like in P3. Changing Persona and getting new ones, a common thing for all party members in P1 through 2, while also having a main one alongside an Ultimate Persona is this exact thing, a mechanic that works with the narrative, but what about P3 and 5? At least you can make a simple case for 4, and because you can use your mechanics as part of the story and then choose not to do so just rubs me in a weird way. As some final words, I dislike Wild Cards for being... mere power fantasies looking to make the player stand out in a crowd. You are the star of the show, look how cool you are here, never mind how unimpressive you are outside of the game! Which is fine, I also like to think I'm a cool as fuck Demon Slayer whenever I play DMC, but in games as heavy in story, characters and themes as Persona, it really just leaves me wanting for more. Call me old if you want, however old 21 years is, but at this current age, I want something that will challenge me, make me care, even grow and then stick with me in a meaningful way, not play my own power fantasies of dating multiple girls and being the coolest, strongest guy there is with an unique and special power that puts me above the rest. What's the point of explaining the joys of working together and connecting with others, rejecting loneliness, accepting reality, becoming an unique individual that is flawed and trying to become a part of a larger world full of other flawed but unique people if you can do everything on your own and falsify your reality?
Cool Cool
.....wow that got deep when im just here sitting like "oh cool i can make my character the way i want them to be and thats cool" I mean i still like that aspect, no matter what whenever it comes to the main character in a JRPG i feel like you should always be able to customize the person you play as to fit the player, wether it be asthetic or not. But now i see its kinda flawed. But im still curious, i kinda wanna see what you would propose instead of the neo persona way, while still allowing the player to do what they want with their persona. Another point that possibly you might have forgotten to bring up was P3P's FeMC. She also has her own character, even if its just being kind. Thats because she represents the World arcana already. She doesnt fear death, even before this whole story starts. She embraced it since the beginning. I cant do this point enough justice but there is a video that can that i'll post later, but still So uh yeah nice post
https://youtu.be/ZMQfo8nyctU found the video
So, what your saying is. I still get to keep my wild card license.
I like this perspective. I will say that the Persona 5 char does actually seem to have a bit of a personality. It feels a lot more that you're agreeing with him than anything else. I wish you could select a confidant at the end and get a different final persona based on the confidant you selected.